<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: It&#8217;s Hard Being An Egalitarian</title>
	<atom:link href="http://lianaandmason.com/dollhouse/2009/11/13/its-hard-being-an-egalitarian/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://lianaandmason.com/dollhouse/2009/11/13/its-hard-being-an-egalitarian/#utm_source=feed&#038;utm_medium=feed&#038;utm_campaign=feed?utm_source=rss&#038;utm_medium=rss&#038;utm_campaign=its-hard-being-an-egalitarian</link>
	<description>This isn&#039;t going according to plan...</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 01 Feb 2012 15:42:57 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: teendoc</title>
		<link>http://lianaandmason.com/dollhouse/2009/11/13/its-hard-being-an-egalitarian/comment-page-1/#comment-3777</link>
		<dc:creator>teendoc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 18:00:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lianaandmason.com/dollhouse/?p=2005#comment-3777</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;But there are those situations where the men simply do not help out.&lt;/em&gt;

Again, this choice of wording begs the question...is home care part of both adults&#039; responsibilities or is the man &quot;helping&quot; the woman? With my husband, I was kinda like, &lt;em&gt;look. There are things that need to be done around the house (and later with the kid). Neither of us want to do them but they have to be done. So what is our strategy going to be? And if you have any idea that it will fall on my shoulders because I have the XX chromosomes, I suggest you think again, since there is nothing in those chromosomes that make me have any affinity for home care.&lt;/em&gt; 

So I didn&#039;t approach it as if &lt;strong&gt;I&lt;/strong&gt; needed &lt;strong&gt;his&lt;/strong&gt; help. &lt;em&gt;(Because that would make the primary responsibility mine.)&lt;/em&gt; I approached it as if this was a problem we had to solve together. And if it required complicated charts and schedules, then so be it, because if I decided instead to own the responsibility, then there would be no way to later attempt to share said responsibility.

Now had he said that he didn&#039;t plan to do anything in the house, I would ask &lt;em&gt;(and ask and ask and go to couple&#039;s therapy and keep asking)&lt;/em&gt; what his plan would then be for completing his half of the household responsibilities?

&lt;em&gt;Perhaps if we changed our language, our attitudes and actions would change? Is that what you find problematic? Totally agree. I was thinking that you were talking about policies. Same for programs for the poor; it’s not that the programs aren’t available to men, but we are less likely to talk about a dad needed such programs to care for his family.&lt;/em&gt;

This is exactly what I&#039;m getting at. By making the word &quot;&lt;em&gt;parent&lt;/em&gt;&quot; or &quot;&lt;em&gt;family&lt;/em&gt;&quot; generally equivalent to &quot;&lt;em&gt;mom&lt;/em&gt;&quot; we do grave disservice to all of us, both men and women. Attitudes will not start to shift until we begin to frame the dialogue in different language and emotionally give either gender the same access to family choices rather than saying moms are entitled to protections and leaving out fathers.

I&#039;m a big fan of the Equally Shared Parenting site. I think it is eye opening for many couples. Thanks for the dialogue!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>But there are those situations where the men simply do not help out.</em></p>
<p>Again, this choice of wording begs the question&#8230;is home care part of both adults&#8217; responsibilities or is the man &#8220;helping&#8221; the woman? With my husband, I was kinda like, <em>look. There are things that need to be done around the house (and later with the kid). Neither of us want to do them but they have to be done. So what is our strategy going to be? And if you have any idea that it will fall on my shoulders because I have the XX chromosomes, I suggest you think again, since there is nothing in those chromosomes that make me have any affinity for home care.</em> </p>
<p>So I didn&#8217;t approach it as if <strong>I</strong> needed <strong>his</strong> help. <em>(Because that would make the primary responsibility mine.)</em> I approached it as if this was a problem we had to solve together. And if it required complicated charts and schedules, then so be it, because if I decided instead to own the responsibility, then there would be no way to later attempt to share said responsibility.</p>
<p>Now had he said that he didn&#8217;t plan to do anything in the house, I would ask <em>(and ask and ask and go to couple&#8217;s therapy and keep asking)</em> what his plan would then be for completing his half of the household responsibilities?</p>
<p><em>Perhaps if we changed our language, our attitudes and actions would change? Is that what you find problematic? Totally agree. I was thinking that you were talking about policies. Same for programs for the poor; it’s not that the programs aren’t available to men, but we are less likely to talk about a dad needed such programs to care for his family.</em></p>
<p>This is exactly what I&#8217;m getting at. By making the word &#8220;<em>parent</em>&#8221; or &#8220;<em>family</em>&#8221; generally equivalent to &#8220;<em>mom</em>&#8221; we do grave disservice to all of us, both men and women. Attitudes will not start to shift until we begin to frame the dialogue in different language and emotionally give either gender the same access to family choices rather than saying moms are entitled to protections and leaving out fathers.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m a big fan of the Equally Shared Parenting site. I think it is eye opening for many couples. Thanks for the dialogue!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Monica</title>
		<link>http://lianaandmason.com/dollhouse/2009/11/13/its-hard-being-an-egalitarian/comment-page-1/#comment-5441</link>
		<dc:creator>Monica</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Nov 2009 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lianaandmason.com/dollhouse/?p=2005#comment-5441</guid>
		<description>Your post is well written (as usual) but did I miss something? Did the photographer behave as she did because she is female? Should the assumption be that a male would be more assertive? I know a few men who will not stand up for themselves no matter what...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your post is well written (as usual) but did I miss something? Did the photographer behave as she did because she is female? Should the assumption be that a male would be more assertive? I know a few men who will not stand up for themselves no matter what&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Liana</title>
		<link>http://lianaandmason.com/dollhouse/2009/11/13/its-hard-being-an-egalitarian/comment-page-1/#comment-5442</link>
		<dc:creator>Liana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Nov 2009 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lianaandmason.com/dollhouse/?p=2005#comment-5442</guid>
		<description>Maybe my writing wasn&#039;t up to its usual standards because there have been some questions about this statement in the places I&#039;ve posted.I do understand that there are men who have trouble advocating for themselves, but I&#039;ve not seen as many who write in saying that they are avoiding client phone calls because they are afraid to ask for the money they are owed without sounding snotty. Yet I hear this type of thing from women all the time. The question &quot;How do you tell someone...&quot; is something I hear much more often from women than men. So this is why I see the issue as being more pronounced in women.It goes without saying that there will be those of either sex who will have difficulty claiming their own power.However, my trouble is that when I look at the distribution of a curve that purports to measure the quality that I&#039;ll call &quot;backbone&quot; in women, I can assure you that the distribution will not be normal (i.e. a bell curve). My experience (no objective data to back this up, however) says that it will be skewed, in that the majority of women will be lower in the backbone quality measurement. And that, I believe, is a function of the &quot;gender box.&quot; We need to move out of our little boxes so that our distributions normalize, meaning that the issue is not so pronounced in females. Does this make more sense?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe my writing wasn&#039;t up to its usual standards because there have been some questions about this statement in the places I&#039;ve posted.I do understand that there are men who have trouble advocating for themselves, but I&#039;ve not seen as many who write in saying that they are avoiding client phone calls because they are afraid to ask for the money they are owed without sounding snotty. Yet I hear this type of thing from women all the time. The question &quot;How do you tell someone&#8230;&quot; is something I hear much more often from women than men. So this is why I see the issue as being more pronounced in women.It goes without saying that there will be those of either sex who will have difficulty claiming their own power.However, my trouble is that when I look at the distribution of a curve that purports to measure the quality that I&#039;ll call &quot;backbone&quot; in women, I can assure you that the distribution will not be normal (i.e. a bell curve). My experience (no objective data to back this up, however) says that it will be skewed, in that the majority of women will be lower in the backbone quality measurement. And that, I believe, is a function of the &quot;gender box.&quot; We need to move out of our little boxes so that our distributions normalize, meaning that the issue is not so pronounced in females. Does this make more sense?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Monica</title>
		<link>http://lianaandmason.com/dollhouse/2009/11/13/its-hard-being-an-egalitarian/comment-page-1/#comment-5443</link>
		<dc:creator>Monica</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Nov 2009 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lianaandmason.com/dollhouse/?p=2005#comment-5443</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the clarification. Here in a nutshell is what I struggle with. If on one hand we accept the premise that the majority of women skew lower in backbone measurement as opposed to our male counterparts, can we be offended if it is said that we (females) are hardwired to be better nurturers etc...?Think I&#039;ll ponder over a glass of Merlot ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the clarification. Here in a nutshell is what I struggle with. If on one hand we accept the premise that the majority of women skew lower in backbone measurement as opposed to our male counterparts, can we be offended if it is said that we (females) are hardwired to be better nurturers etc&#8230;?Think I&#039;ll ponder over a glass of Merlot <img src='http://lianaandmason.com/dollhouse/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Liana</title>
		<link>http://lianaandmason.com/dollhouse/2009/11/13/its-hard-being-an-egalitarian/comment-page-1/#comment-5444</link>
		<dc:creator>Liana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Nov 2009 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lianaandmason.com/dollhouse/?p=2005#comment-5444</guid>
		<description>Ah but see, my point is that most gender based hardwiring is more mythos and socialization than is truly &quot;genetic.&quot; I think that were we all not so socialized into gender boxes, we would find the distributions of many qualities presumed to be either male or female would be more normalized in either gender.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah but see, my point is that most gender based hardwiring is more mythos and socialization than is truly &quot;genetic.&quot; I think that were we all not so socialized into gender boxes, we would find the distributions of many qualities presumed to be either male or female would be more normalized in either gender.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Edgar</title>
		<link>http://lianaandmason.com/dollhouse/2009/11/13/its-hard-being-an-egalitarian/comment-page-1/#comment-5445</link>
		<dc:creator>Edgar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Nov 2009 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lianaandmason.com/dollhouse/?p=2005#comment-5445</guid>
		<description>Interesting!  I have seen this often in my profession that is very male dominated.  Men are expected to stand up for themselves..particularly in the street.  However when a woman takes on the same tact, she has to be careful at how she is perceived.  Often, she is cast in a light that isn&#039;t positive.  Male officers are threatend by her confidence.  Questions arise about her sexuality. When she becomes a supervisor...whoo boy...it can be worse.  The more popular female supervisors or managers are nurturing almost mother like.  If she&#039;s a &quot;get to the point&quot; person...she&#039;s immediately cast as a bitch or the question goes right back to sexuality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting!  I have seen this often in my profession that is very male dominated.  Men are expected to stand up for themselves..particularly in the street.  However when a woman takes on the same tact, she has to be careful at how she is perceived.  Often, she is cast in a light that isn&#039;t positive.  Male officers are threatend by her confidence.  Questions arise about her sexuality. When she becomes a supervisor&#8230;whoo boy&#8230;it can be worse.  The more popular female supervisors or managers are nurturing almost mother like.  If she&#039;s a &quot;get to the point&quot; person&#8230;she&#039;s immediately cast as a bitch or the question goes right back to sexuality.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Edgar</title>
		<link>http://lianaandmason.com/dollhouse/2009/11/13/its-hard-being-an-egalitarian/comment-page-1/#comment-5531</link>
		<dc:creator>Edgar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Nov 2009 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lianaandmason.com/dollhouse/?p=2005#comment-5531</guid>
		<description>Interesting!  I have seen this often in my profession that is very male dominated.  Men are expected to stand up for themselves..par&#8203;ticularly in the street.  However when a woman takes on the same tact, she has to be careful at how she is perceived.  Often, she is cast in a light that isn&#039;t positive.  Male officers are threatend by her confidence.  Questions arise about her sexuality. When she becomes a supervisor...wh&#8203;oo boy...it can be worse.  The more popular female supervisors or managers are nurturing almost mother like.  If she&#039;s a &quot;get to the point&quot; person...she&#039;s immediately cast as a bitch or the question goes right back to sexuality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting!  I have seen this often in my profession that is very male dominated.  Men are expected to stand up for themselves..par&#8203;ticularly in the street.  However when a woman takes on the same tact, she has to be careful at how she is perceived.  Often, she is cast in a light that isn&#039;t positive.  Male officers are threatend by her confidence.  Questions arise about her sexuality. When she becomes a supervisor&#8230;wh&#8203;oo boy&#8230;it can be worse.  The more popular female supervisors or managers are nurturing almost mother like.  If she&#039;s a &quot;get to the point&quot; person&#8230;she&#039;s immediately cast as a bitch or the question goes right back to sexuality.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Deesha</title>
		<link>http://lianaandmason.com/dollhouse/2009/11/13/its-hard-being-an-egalitarian/comment-page-1/#comment-3776</link>
		<dc:creator>Deesha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 19:49:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lianaandmason.com/dollhouse/?p=2005#comment-3776</guid>
		<description>**Now here is my question. Why is it that women are pulling second shift? From my egalitarian post, what I see are women who seem to claim the home and children as their domain, in addition to their jobs/careers that they have outside the home. They say that they would prefer a more egalitarian distribution of household and parenting responsibilities, yet if the father doesn’t dress the kid to Mom’s standards, she’s not happy. Or if the dishwasher is loaded the “wrong” way, or some other transgression. So what I get from this is that the mother doesn’t really want equally shared parenting/home care. She wants the father to manage home and kids to her specs. And if that does not happen, then she ends up doing the majority (if not all) of the home care.**

Great point!  But there are those situations where the men simply do not help out.

Getting divorced certainly eliminated my &quot;...and I want you to do it the way I would do it&quot; blues.  Being on his own with the kids meant my ex had the freedom to do things his way...and it also required him to step up in ways he would not when we were married.

**So my question is why is there no feminist advocacy for equally shared parenting and home care?**

I believe there is.  I believe it happens in homes, on a micro level, and in women encouraging other women in this direction.  I don&#039;t know what it would look like on a macro level.  Let&#039;s find out!

I Googled:

feminist parenting shared division of labor

...and here&#039;s some of what I found:

http://divisionoflabor.blogspot.com/2008/08/one-more-reason-people-think-unequal.html

http://divisionoflabor.blogspot.com/2008/08/feminist-motherhood.html

http://www.businessweek.com/careers/workingparents/blog/archives/2007/04/the_elusive_505.html

http://equallysharedparenting.com/blogger.html

Here&#039;s an excerpt from http://family.jrank.org/pages/408/Division-Labor-Contemporary-Divisions-Labor.html which points to the existence of feminist critique of the status quo division of labor:

&quot;However, feminist critiques claim that these theories [that women are predisposed to housework and childcare] have flawed logic and methods, and cite historical and cross-cultural variation to show that divisions of labor are socially constructed (Thorne and Yalom 1992); only women can bear and nurse children, but the gender of the people who cook or clean is neither fixed nor preordained.&quot;

Thorne, B., with Yalom, M. (1992). Rethinking the Family: Some Feminist Questions. New York: Longman.

Again, I think the issue is that there are a diversity of voices that call themselves &quot;feminist&quot;.  Some more marginalized or mainstream than others.

**Like parenting leave. If a man wanted to take leave and be the primary caregiver for 6 months, he too would need similar protections for his job. So it is more about the leave itself and the employer’s response to it than the gender of the parent taking the leave, right?**

Yes, and FMLA isn&#039;t gender-specific.  How people talk about the issues (as you say, semantics), may be gender-specific, but the policies are not.  Perhaps if we changed our language, our attitudes and actions would change?  Is that what you find problematic?  Totally agree. I was thinking that you were talking about policies. Same for programs for the poor; it&#039;s not that the programs aren&#039;t available to men, but we are less likely to talk about a dad needed such programs to care for his family.  

My fiance has 50-50 custody of his daughters.  His employer has given him leeway and he&#039;s enjoyed job protections of the type that are typically associated with what women need in terms of child-care issues and such.  I read somewhere that men have a harder time than women do asking for and or being granted the protections that are legally available to them when it comes to family leave and flexibility.
.-= Deesha&#180;s last blog ..&lt;a href=&quot;http://coparenting101.org/2009/11/12/when-do-you-introduce-your-kids-to-the-next/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;“When Do You Introduce Your Kids to ‘The Next’?”&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>**Now here is my question. Why is it that women are pulling second shift? From my egalitarian post, what I see are women who seem to claim the home and children as their domain, in addition to their jobs/careers that they have outside the home. They say that they would prefer a more egalitarian distribution of household and parenting responsibilities, yet if the father doesn’t dress the kid to Mom’s standards, she’s not happy. Or if the dishwasher is loaded the “wrong” way, or some other transgression. So what I get from this is that the mother doesn’t really want equally shared parenting/home care. She wants the father to manage home and kids to her specs. And if that does not happen, then she ends up doing the majority (if not all) of the home care.**</p>
<p>Great point!  But there are those situations where the men simply do not help out.</p>
<p>Getting divorced certainly eliminated my &#8220;&#8230;and I want you to do it the way I would do it&#8221; blues.  Being on his own with the kids meant my ex had the freedom to do things his way&#8230;and it also required him to step up in ways he would not when we were married.</p>
<p>**So my question is why is there no feminist advocacy for equally shared parenting and home care?**</p>
<p>I believe there is.  I believe it happens in homes, on a micro level, and in women encouraging other women in this direction.  I don&#8217;t know what it would look like on a macro level.  Let&#8217;s find out!</p>
<p>I Googled:</p>
<p>feminist parenting shared division of labor</p>
<p>&#8230;and here&#8217;s some of what I found:</p>
<p><a href="http://divisionoflabor.blogspot.com/2008/08/one-more-reason-people-think-unequal.html" rel="nofollow">http://divisionoflabor.blogspot.com/2008/08/one-more-reason-people-think-unequal.html</a></p>
<p><a href="http://divisionoflabor.blogspot.com/2008/08/feminist-motherhood.html" rel="nofollow">http://divisionoflabor.blogspot.com/2008/08/feminist-motherhood.html</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.businessweek.com/careers/workingparents/blog/archives/2007/04/the_elusive_505.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.businessweek.com/careers/workingparents/blog/archives/2007/04/the_elusive_505.html</a></p>
<p><a href="http://equallysharedparenting.com/blogger.html" rel="nofollow">http://equallysharedparenting.com/blogger.html</a></p>
<p>Here&#8217;s an excerpt from <a href="http://family.jrank.org/pages/408/Division-Labor-Contemporary-Divisions-Labor.html" rel="nofollow">http://family.jrank.org/pages/408/Division-Labor-Contemporary-Divisions-Labor.html</a> which points to the existence of feminist critique of the status quo division of labor:</p>
<p>&#8220;However, feminist critiques claim that these theories [that women are predisposed to housework and childcare] have flawed logic and methods, and cite historical and cross-cultural variation to show that divisions of labor are socially constructed (Thorne and Yalom 1992); only women can bear and nurse children, but the gender of the people who cook or clean is neither fixed nor preordained.&#8221;</p>
<p>Thorne, B., with Yalom, M. (1992). Rethinking the Family: Some Feminist Questions. New York: Longman.</p>
<p>Again, I think the issue is that there are a diversity of voices that call themselves &#8220;feminist&#8221;.  Some more marginalized or mainstream than others.</p>
<p>**Like parenting leave. If a man wanted to take leave and be the primary caregiver for 6 months, he too would need similar protections for his job. So it is more about the leave itself and the employer’s response to it than the gender of the parent taking the leave, right?**</p>
<p>Yes, and FMLA isn&#8217;t gender-specific.  How people talk about the issues (as you say, semantics), may be gender-specific, but the policies are not.  Perhaps if we changed our language, our attitudes and actions would change?  Is that what you find problematic?  Totally agree. I was thinking that you were talking about policies. Same for programs for the poor; it&#8217;s not that the programs aren&#8217;t available to men, but we are less likely to talk about a dad needed such programs to care for his family.  </p>
<p>My fiance has 50-50 custody of his daughters.  His employer has given him leeway and he&#8217;s enjoyed job protections of the type that are typically associated with what women need in terms of child-care issues and such.  I read somewhere that men have a harder time than women do asking for and or being granted the protections that are legally available to them when it comes to family leave and flexibility.<br />
.-= Deesha&#180;s last blog ..<a href="http://coparenting101.org/2009/11/12/when-do-you-introduce-your-kids-to-the-next/" rel="nofollow">“When Do You Introduce Your Kids to ‘The Next’?”</a> =-.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Adrienne</title>
		<link>http://lianaandmason.com/dollhouse/2009/11/13/its-hard-being-an-egalitarian/comment-page-1/#comment-3775</link>
		<dc:creator>Adrienne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 18:04:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lianaandmason.com/dollhouse/?p=2005#comment-3775</guid>
		<description>You areabsolutely right about the phenomena of women wanting more parental participation in child-rearing anf chores, really but wanting husbands to do everything to her specs when he participates in the work of home and childrearing. This is why many women who do this are unhappy and worn out..they do this to themselves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You areabsolutely right about the phenomena of women wanting more parental participation in child-rearing anf chores, really but wanting husbands to do everything to her specs when he participates in the work of home and childrearing. This is why many women who do this are unhappy and worn out..they do this to themselves.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: teendoc</title>
		<link>http://lianaandmason.com/dollhouse/2009/11/13/its-hard-being-an-egalitarian/comment-page-1/#comment-3772</link>
		<dc:creator>teendoc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 03:01:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lianaandmason.com/dollhouse/?p=2005#comment-3772</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s the thing that kills me. She wants to run a business but she cannot ask for what she is owed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s the thing that kills me. She wants to run a business but she cannot ask for what she is owed.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

